Wednesday, January 12, 2011

Which Razorback Spam is the best?


In a conversation with Sabote earlier this week - we got into a discussion around the different ways that Razorback Spam could be built and decided to do the analysis. The idea was a core troop unit - minimum size - with a Melta Gun (if you can take it) and a Powerfist. Razorback would be Las/Plas or Twin Link Las.

First - Dark Angels

Yes you can do Razorback spam with the lowly Dark Angels. But is it even effective...let's see.

Here's what ArmyBuilder gives you:

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 205 pts)
4 Tactical Squad @ 205 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x4; Bolter x3; Meltagun; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x1; Power Fist; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads)
1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Lascannon)

So - a pricey 205 points gives you the above unit.

Black Templar:

Again - an old dated Codex - but it still can do what we are looking at...

Troops: Crusader Squad (6#, 195 pts)
1 Crusader Squad @ 195 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Bolt Pistol & CCW; Meltagun; Bolt Pistol & Power Fist; Razorback)
3 Initiate with Bolt Pistol and CCW (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon)
1 Initiate with Meltagun (Meltagun)
1 Initiate with Bolt Pistol & Power Fist (Bolt Pistol; Power Fist)
1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Twin Linked Lascannon)

A little better than the DA price wise - but no Sarge so one attack less. Pretty much an even unit.

Codex: Space Marines

Now onto Vanilla Marines. To get the Melta - you have to add a Combi-Melta to the Sarge along with the PF - lots of points on one model. Still - vanilla marines are cheap right - so should be a price advantage? See below:

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 200 pts)
4 Tactical Squad @ 200 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x4; Bolter x4; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Combi-Meltagun x1; Power Fist x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

HMMM - 200 points here for a pretty plain jane unit. Is this really better?

Blood Angels

Ok - now here we go! With the assault squad able to drop Jump packs and save on the price of their rides - this has got to be the ultimate right? Let's see:

Troops: Assault Squad (6#, 190 pts)
3 Assault Squad @ 190 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Remove Jump Packs; Bolt Pistol x3; Chainsword x3; Meltagun; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Descent of Angels; The Red Thirst; Razorback)
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Remove Jump Packs; Chainsword; Meltagun; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Descent of Angels; The Red Thirst)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Remove Jump Packs; Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Descent of Angels; The Red Thirst)
1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, Fast); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Fire Points: 0; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

And yes....a pretty solid point cost - but somewhat in line with the other units. Only 5 points less than Templars.....

Space Wolves

Ahh...are they really the king of the Razorback spam as many are toting now days. Is it a dramatic difference from the above? Let's see....

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 180 pts)
4 Grey Hunters Pack @ 180 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x4; Bolter x3; Close Combat Weapon x4; Meltagun; Power Fist; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack; Razorback)
1 Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x1; Bolter x1; Power Fist; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Well - a definite price improvement. Only 180 points for close to the same thing. Looks good.

Final Thoughts:

What struck me with this is that the difference between the most point cost (Dark Angels at 205) and the least (Wolves at 180) is not a huge difference. The higher cost also gives you a few other things - Leadership 9 (DA, BA, C:SM, vs Leadership 8 on the Wolves and Templar's. C:SM have Combat Tactics. Wolves have Counter-Attack. Bolters (DA, C:SM) vs Bolt Pistols and CCW (BA, Temp) vs all three (Wolves). BA get the Turbo Charged engines on their rides - a big advantage there.

Overall I would say that the Wolves truly are the most cost effective - with Blood Angels being #2. However the remaining lists are pretty much equal.

I also think that the build is viable for all of the codexes - even the old ones. Maybe not as good as the new dex's - but there are lists there that can be competitive.

4 comments:

Black Blow Fly said...

Al - going on which unit is the least amount of points in my opinion is not a good method alone to decide which army is has the best mix for a razorspam army and I think you left out some important details. In my opinion Blood Angels is the best codex for razorspam...

You can take a five man assault squad with a meltagun and melter pistol. Personally I think the power fist across the list is a waste of points. If you want some serious assault then invest in a squad of assault terminators in a landraider. The main strength of BA razorspam is the Lucifer patterned rhino chassis - they are all fast vehicles that can move 12" and still fire a weapon. They can also move 18" flat-out. No other SM army can do that and this advantage outweighs the lesser points of Grey Hunters in a razorback. Also the option to to have two melta weapons onboard is a big plus as well.

Melter pistol >> combi-melta

It's all about multiple shots versus a single shot. The speed of the BA razor can be utilized to put your assault squads in a prime position to fire both at 1/2 range as well as still fire the razorback turret.

A better choice for the assault squad is a power weapon enhanced by a Sanguinary Priest. The main strength to me coming from a SW razorback is a Grey Hunter with MotW and the option to simply run a couple of these transports with a Lone Wolf inside. So now we are well outside exclusively choosing the army on the merit of least points alone. The sum of the whole is greater than the strengths of individual units - in the end it's all about the synergy across an army. Also BA razorspam lends itself well to fielding Mephiston for your line breaker - he can easily hide behind your tank wall then pop out and shred like nobody's business. Sure the Lord of Death is more points than a Lone Wolf but there is no comparison in terms sheer ability in terms of both speed and raw close combat power.

So to me it's hands down BA at the top for the most highly effective razorspam list bro !

G

Aldonis said...

The above was just a way to cost comparisons with things that can be the same across the board.

When you include the "special stuff" - Saguinaries, MOW, etc - that's a different analysis for sure. PF vs PW really doesn't matter as they point the same across all I believe. The idea was to give a anti-armor component (Melta) + a HTH component (PF).

I personally think the best are between BA and Wolves - both have a lot of upsides. At the end of the day though - you can actually do at least a semi-competitive RB Spam army from all of the dex's.

True Mephiston's a beast - but so is Ragnar, Logan, or even generic Wolf Lords....

CORWINDAL5 said...

Good article Al. Good points BBF. I think overall the best is the BA even from a cost stand point. You get a fast vehicle, LD 9, Seargant with 2 base attacks or 3 on the Charge with a PF, and with the fast vehicle you are able to move 6 inchs and fire both the lascannon and plasma gun. You get all of that for just 5 pts more then the space wolves. In my opinion that is a bargain.

CORWINDAL5 said...

But I will say that all of the dexs can make a semi competative list with razorback spam. Which I think was the point of the article. However, who does it best is just a matter of opinion and what you have in your army.